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Episode 005
Body worker HanaKyle Moranz has designed a life and career based on the movement. She shares her struggles with burnout in the physically demanding massage industry, her love for ceramics and dance, as well as strategies for setting boundaries and incorporating mini movement breaks.
Listen to the full episode
Timestamps
- [00:01:40] Letting go of yoga teaching
- [00:05:19] So many Hobbies
- [00:08:20] Hiking: building endurance and overcoming challenges.
- [00:11:21] HanaKyle’s Burnout Story
Burning out in the massage industry - [00:12:35] Mid-twenties, endless work, exhausted, changing schedule.
- [00:16:14] Limited time for break, but still working in massage
- [00:17:34] Only paid for ‘hands on body’ time, what about the rest?
- [00:19:11] Hitting a plateau when working for yourself in massage industry
- [00:22:16] Shifting from freelance to managing activities at a supportive housing facility
- [00:26:32] Recognizing burnout’s unexpected correlation in body/mind.
- 29:25 Technology changed, website flexibility, energy preservation.
- [00:33:36] Power of Transitions
The Importance of transitions in client-focused work. - 36:21 Hugging, petting, shaking. Reset for nervous system.
- 39:05 Simple 5-minute videos for daily stretching and strengthening.
- [00:42:17] Final Five Questions
- [00:] Definition of Wellness
- [00:1] Recharge Method
- [00:] Masterful Skill
- [00:1] Geeking Out
- [00:] Ideal Day
timestamps generation supported by Castmagic AI
Meet our guest, Hanaklye moranz
HanaKyle Moranz, founder of The Body Hotline, is a bodyworker and personal trainer who specializes in working with people with chronic pain to increase resilience in activities of daily life. As a lifelong dancer and movement maven, she’s excited to share inclusive tools for mobility, strength, and an overall sense of wellbeing.
HanaKyle’s one take way from Episode 005 of Engineering Serenity
Resources:
- The 5 Minute Movement mini course: https://www.hanakyle.com/5-days-free
transcript
produced by Castmagic.io
HanaKyle Moranz [00:00:00]:
Not the sensation that’s unexpected, I think it’s the correlation that’s unexpected. Good. I think that when someone is starting to burn out when I was starting to burn out and I started to feel bad, it was hard to recognize that that’s what was happening.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:00:16]:
Are you ready to reclaim your life from exhaustion and Expand the possibilities of what life can be? If so, I’m your guide, Evelyn Pacitti, work life geek and engineer turned resiliency coach on a mission to redefine How we work, live, and utilize our energy. Each episode, I dig deep with my guests as they share their story our strategies for developing our own unique work life blend. This is Engineering Serenity. Episode 5, Movement in Life with Hana Kyle.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:00:47]:
Hi. My name is Hana Kyle Moran. I don’t often even bother with my last name because my first name is unique enough that you can find in me everywhere.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:00:57]:
What industry do you work in?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:00:59]:
Oh, I work in health and wellness.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:01:05]:
Could you tell us more about the work That you do in the health
HanaKyle Moranz [00:01:08]:
and the wellness industry? Of course. I’m primarily a bodyworker. I call myself a movement maven, and I began as a massage therapist and then I became a yoga teacher and a yoga therapist and then I became a personal trainer. And that was all over the past from 2006 to 2018 and then, let’s see, in 2021, I think I made it official that I’m not a yoga teacher anymore.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:01:38]:
How do you not be a yoga teacher anymore?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:01:40]:
I had let go of classes and let go of classes when the pandemic happened and I didn’t love teaching yoga online, to group classes anyway. And then I made a blog post about all the reason. So I did some serious thinking and some serious writing about why I’m not gonna be a yoga teacher anymore. And it’s largely about cultural appropriation because I’m white. And I think that yoga should be taught in its most authentic ways by people who are South Asian. And I generally think yoga should be taught by people who are dedicated to it as a life. And because I am multidisciplinary, it was just one of many pieces for me. And I felt like I really wasn’t doing it justice.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:02:30]:
There will always be yoga thing in my life and poses that I near when I work with people and I try to give yoga credit when I’m using it. And So that’s how I stopped being a yoga teacher. I just did it. And I told people and Yeah. So now I’m a massage therapist and a personal trainer and I work with people 1 on 1 and I see people for massage in person, but I mostly do personal training over Zoom and I think it’s really fun.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:03:09]:
Do you like your career?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:03:12]:
Yeah, I do. I really love the flexibility. In what ways? Oh, I like making my own schedule. I like getting to design my day. For all these years, I have gotten to decide what time I show up to work. I mean, it’s between me and one other person. It’s not enforced by an industry by any means.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:03:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Where do you live?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:03:41]:
Oh, I live in Brooklyn, New York in the US.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:03:45]:
What culture were you raised in? Oh.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:03:51]:
That’s a very interesting question to think about. So okay. I grew up in upstate New York, in, in a like post industrial ish town, some industry is coming back, but, it was not, the beautiful bustling metropolis that it is now. And my mother is an artist and my father had multiple sclerosis, but before that he worked in a steel mill. So I identify as work as growing up working class, and in a, like, then my single parent home to some extent, at as my father got sicker. And, another aspect of my culture is that I’m a white Ashkenazi Jew. And my parents were not really into religion, but I was raised with Jewish cultural practices and I was raised with a healthy dose of art in my life and went to dance class for the majority of my upbringing. So I have classical ballet training that I did not take into my adulthood.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:05:08]:
I did take it into my adulthood. I like to dance still. I like theater. I like music. I have returned to ceramics, so art brings me joy.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:05:20]:
Do you have any hobbies?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:05:22]:
Oh, so many hobbies. If I could only have hobbies and not have a job, that would be awesome. Let’s see. Where do I start? Okay. Well, I already mentioned dancing. So sometimes I go to dance class for fun. I have a really good time in the inter beginning intermediate Broadway jazz class that I don’t do. And it’s just really fun.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:05:44]:
Sometimes I post it on my Instagram a little bit, but there’s always other people. So, you know, it just sounds fun. It’s awesome. Okay. I Last year, I returned to the world of ceramic. I’m gonna show you. I made this little planter recently. The top half is a, pinkish coral and the bottom half is a color called aqua and then it’s little dish of coral and I’m just really proud of myself because, it’s really fun to make things with your hands and have something that you made.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:06:18]:
Like, how often do we have something that we made? I know that some people like made something that goes into my phone. So like, do they then hold that with pride? No.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:06:27]:
I remember I was touring universities when I was going to school. And there was a guy who looked at us somewhere along the interview and he said, oh, what does your family I said, oh, we’re tool and die makers. And he looked at me and he said, you actually make stuff? I made cement pipes once. He was so proud of his cement pipes, and it just it resonated with me on that. The the fact that so many of us work in industries based on ideas and thinking and words and communication, there’s so there’s something amazing about creating something tactile. Agreed
HanaKyle Moranz [00:07:04]:
completely. My mom’s a weaver, so there was always someone creating something tactile in my in my childhood and my even now. And, so it it’s very valid to me and very useful. And then I also think about, like, we’ll probably get into this later, but I also think about how much am I using my, my body, how much am I using my brain in my work, in my day to day. Yeah. My other hobbies include riding my bike.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:07:30]:
Which sounds dangerous in Brooklyn?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:07:32]:
Totally dangerous, I wear a helmet and I have lights and I don’t go very fast, so I’m fairly safe. I’m not gonna knock on wood for that because it’s sort of every day, but it feels good. The autonomy feels really good. I like nature, which is ironic in the place where I can’t get to deep nature very easily. And I’m working on I don’t know. I think this is a hobby. I’m gonna call it a hobby. I’m working on becoming a hiker in the next decade of my life.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:08:02]:
Not this decade, the next decade.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:08:05]:
Oh, in your 50s?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:08:06]:
I’m starting now. Mhmm, in my fifties.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:08:11]:
Like it’s such an interesting idea deciding on what hobby you’re going to do in the next Decades that you can prepare now, is it athletic training, picking, picking journeys?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:08:20]:
I don’t know yet. That’s what it’s gonna take me a long time to think about. So hiking What I’m realizing in my forties is that, people who hike as children are comfortable hiking as adults, largely, like, my out of my friends anyway. I did not hike as a child because my father was sick, so there were lots and lots of things that I didn’t do, I never learned to ski, I never went hiking, I just went to ballet class. Now ballet class and hiking are very different activities in terms of endurance. And so what I’m doing now is teaching my body to keep going when it gets tired, when it gets fatigued, because stepping, walking, walking slightly up a hill, doesn’t seem like it should be that hard, but it, my body is incredibly resistant to it. I have no sense of how to overcome the flight of comfort in my cab other than like must stop now. So I’m working on that.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:09:18]:
Oh, it’s fun that that’s like, that’s the thing that you’re training your body to do and that you’re giving yourself enough space so that it doesn’t feel Like you’re under pressure in order for that to happen. Exactly.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:09:28]:
Yeah. I went for like a 5 or 6 mile hike in Maine last summer, and it was so hard. I was so unhappy with myself at how hard it was because I’m 40. I would be I’m an athlete. I’m not like an athlete that plays games, but, like, I’m active. This shouldn’t be that hard, but it was. And why was it easy for like 10 of my friends? And I was like gonna die, I wasn’t gonna die, but it felt like that, you know? So Yeah. I’m really, I’m really working with that because I wanna have fun out in nature, and I think that hiking is a really beautiful activity when you’re not miserable like I was.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:10:03]:
And I think I can do it, but I have to work my way up there.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:10:07]:
Oh, yeah. That makes sense.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:10:09]:
Yeah. Those are my hobbies for now. Like, come up with 10 more if you want.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:10:14]:
No. I I mean, I love how many hobbies that you have. And I love that I’ll talk to different guests and some have a ton of hobbies and some don’t have that many, and I find it a really interesting thing to look at. Who has hobbies and how does that show up? And, like, is it just different personalities or is it different phases of life or is it different work life balances that you found that enables you to have more hobbies? And, like, with your relationship with your work, I have so many questions about that. But it it’s a interesting pattern that I’m finding to this question.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:10:44]:
That’s cool. I can’t wait to see what your scientific discoveries are as you continue these conversations with different people.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:10:53]:
Yeah. It’s like one of these accidental things that since I’m asking so many of the same questions to each guest, I’m accidentally collecting statistical data across Print. Thanks.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:11:05]:
Love it. Love it.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:11:07]:
You know, you could take the woman out of the lab, but you can’t take the lab out of the woman. Nice. Do you have any history with burnout?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:11:17]:
Oh, sure. Like I said, sometimes it’s hard to stop working. Okay. So I think that my 1st experience of burnout was when I first became a massage therapist and I got this job that I really liked, or at least I thought I really liked it. And my hours at this job I was still working part time in arts education because that’s what I did while I was in massage school. And so I worked there, like, some combination of Monday through Thursday. I don’t remember. And then I worked at this massage job, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I had my hours on Friday.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:11:51]:
Why I remember this is beyond me, but I’m going to lay it out for you. My hours on Friday were 2 to 9 and my hours on Saturday were 10 to 4 and my hours on Sunday were like 11 to 3. And so those blocks of time, basically I get booked for a massage, either probably 60 or 90 minutes with 15 or 30 minutes in between each one, so there’s like a little break, but not a long break. And I would be pretty fully booked. And so I would have the 3 really intense, physically laborious days in a row. My neck and shoulders were in so much pain. I was really building strength then. I was like 6 months out of massage school.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:12:35]:
I had not ever done this much work, but I was also in my mid twenties. So I wasn’t like, this is dangerous. Now, I would never have a schedule like that. I have way more boundaries now. But anyway, my body hurt all the time. I was exhausted on Monday, like, I couldn’t even go to this other job on Monday, so I’m gonna had to change my schedule for that. And I have this really distinct memory of my boss at that job thanked me, give so and so a really great massage, and then walking away as I was getting ready to go into a session and I was like, of course, I’m gonna give this person a good massage. All of my massages are good.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:13:22]:
Why would you say this to me? Kind of weird micromanaging BS of this. And then not long after that, I got fired. It was not like they said that one thing to me and then I got fired. I think that there must have been other things that I didn’t know about that made them unhappy with my work. Then after that, I got a job that I really liked, that I, have been on and off at since 2007. So in the end, that was fine, that they fired me. That’s like my dirty secret that I’m now airing to the world because it was so long ago, it really doesn’t matter. But because that schedule was so intense, I don’t think I could maintain my quality of work, I couldn’t maintain my energy.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:14:07]:
I wasn’t faring well. And I knew that, and I didn’t really feel empowered to change it.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:14:16]:
Mhmm. That’s interesting. The that feeling of being unable to change it? Is that because of the management structure you were in? The lack of knowledge? What do you feel like that lack of empowerment came from?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:14:28]:
I think I was green. I was new to the industry. I was young, although I’ve never been one to hide my opinion. I think it was hard at that point for me to have the self awareness that maybe I should ask for a different one of those days or have a different day in my schedule. But I also think I’m I’m having this memory of someone else that became my client privately, who was also a massage. I feel like I’m going to go call her and ask her after this, but I am pretty sure that she had that same schedule and they fired her and then they hired me and I was in that same schedule, and then they fired me. And I think that it was not a good schedule. It was too much.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:15:23]:
Like starting with so many hours on Friday did not set me up for success, did not set anyone up for success. Like we need moderation.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:15:31]:
And even with those breaks of 15 to 30 minutes between, like, when you think about going to a day job from 9 to 5, having a 30 minute break or having a 15 minute break seems like a lot, especially if you’re getting one every 60 to 90 minutes. It seems like you would, quote unquote, air quotes to everyone who can’t see me, you should be able to rest and recover within that window. And do you think knowing what you do today about how you recover and recharge, you would be able to do that or just the intensity of that schedule Is non workable in terms of that amount of physical hours one after another.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:16:14]:
Would I be able to do it now? Not for very long without being so angry and tired, what I wanted to add in there is in that 15 or 30 minute time period, that sounds like a break, you actually have to take the linens off your table and then put the new ones back on and then like clean anything else that needs to be cleaned for the next session. And maybe because there’s also the moment of, like the client comes out and then you say, how are you feeling? Here are some things I think you should do at home in between sessions so that you stop having all that pain in your shoulder. And so to have that, friendly interaction that’s not rushed and change over the room basically, put me ready to see the next person right at that time. Unless I had half an hour, then in then in which time I had time to go downstairs and have a quick snack and, like, stuff food into my face as fast as possible and then get back to work. And like, you know, it’s nice to sit down after you eat and like digest. Yeah. So it really wasn’t a break. It was this in between time that I was still working, but not getting paid really.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:17:33]:
Oh. Well, it’s, it’s tough because in massage therapy, you’re getting paid for the hands on body time, but all the other stuff counts to the talking, the thinking, the note taking the cleanup. It’s tough. It’s tough. When you’re working for someone else, you get paid less than when you’re in private practice. When you’re in private practice, you have more overhead. So it’s really hard to find the right dollar amount to feel adequately compensated in all the settings.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:18:10]:
And I think that’s true in a lot of different places where is the work that I’m putting in versus the compensation Worth it. And I think when we start to talk about our energy usage is the amount of energy I’m putting in to do this job, even though I could be being paid well for it, is it enough compensation, or do I want compensation in time or Freedom and flexibility in work. And I think that’s the shift in conversation that we’re starting to see, especially after the pandemic where people started to get that taste of Flexibility and making their own hours and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Since you left the position of the massage therapy, which sounds like it was a long time ago.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:18:55]:
That was a long time ago. Yeah.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:18:57]:
Have you always been working for yourself and been able to create your own schedule, have you been able to find that balance while still working in movement?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:19:08]:
It’s ongoing. It’s ongoing. And I think that something that in 2013, I realized about myself was that I realized I had plateaued and I couldn’t work any like, the amount of hours of the day of me working was full. And I didn’t feel like I could raise my prices and I didn’t feel like I could work in more hours without feeling burnt out. And I was running around all over the city. That’s one thing that the pandemic did for me, which I loved was not having to run around anymore, and be on the train all the time, going to different places. It was just really a lot. I think I had fun for a while and then it got really exhausting.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:19:53]:
And then it was 2020, and so I got to be at home and relax. Anyway, let’s go back to the question at hand.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:20:00]:
You said you ended up plateauing, and that was an Yeah. Insightful moment. What was that insight at that plateau? Thank you.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:20:09]:
The insight of that plateau is that I need to do something different. And I did not immediately know what that was.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:20:17]:
I love it when your system goes, I need to do something different. That is such a core moment when your body starts saying something has to change. Mhmm, and
HanaKyle Moranz [00:20:27]:
I would like to think that’s when my clients come to me. They don’t have to know exactly what needs to change. I can help them figure that out, but I think one option is to pursue help when something needs to change, but you don’t exactly know what. Yeah. Yeah. I like this. You wanna take this with me? Anyway, what happened at that point? Okay. You were asking me if I worked for myself this whole time and I was like note to self talk about that.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:20:58]:
It’s so interesting because I am always working for myself. And at the same time, I always have like a mini version of a boss, which is my client. Right. Cause they’re paying me. And so one could say I’ve got like 15 bosses, which is not how I feel at all, but that is one perspective of freelance work is that each new relationship is has a power dynamic, but it’s not exactly the same as a traditional work setting. So what happened in 2013 was I was massaging, in a supportive housing facility. Supportive housing is a setting where people get to live in apartments, in an apartment building, and they have social services on-site. So there’s social workers and case managers, and in this supportive housing model that I worked in, the people who lived there were formerly homeless and then some of them, because it was a partnership, were low income arts professionals.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:22:07]:
Okay. So maybe you’ve heard there’s like a bit of a housing shortage, in a lot of places, including New York city.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:22:15]:
Yes.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:22:16]:
And, that’s one of the ways that they work on housing is by creating these settings where people who might not move into a traditional apartment easily get support to live in an apartment and be safe and comfortable at home. So what happened in the supportive housing facility is that there was a person on staff who ran activities for everyone who lived there. And that was a way of creating a setting where people who might have mental health issues or are just not used to socializing in a quote unquote normal way, get to come and be with their peers and just do things like in New York city, there’s so many things to do. Let’s do things. And when you don’t have any resources, you don’t think you can even do things, and then suddenly you have some resources. And now having the feel to be comfortable in a room with a bunch of other people playing bingo, how does it feel to attend a Thanksgiving celebration with a large group of people? So anyway, one of the activities that they, decided to go for was massage. So I would come in once a month and do 10, 15 minute massages on people sitting in a chair. Like it’s a fairly safe environment, everyone is clothed, they don’t have to leave their building and they get to like relax, how nice.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:23:42]:
Right? I really love doing work like that because I wanna provide services for people who aren’t necessarily paying me directly than can be. So this larger organization was paying me and these people got the benefit who wouldn’t normally that’s massage. So then in 2013, I’ve been doing it for a bunch of years and in 2013, the person who organize the activities with moving on and they said, Hey, Hannah Kyle, do you wanna be activities coordinator? And I said, maybe. And so I applied because I was like, would this be fun? Wow. Benefits are cool. Maybe I’d like to do this. And then I applied I went through the interview process just like normal, and I got the job. And so then I took a sort of then my hiatus from being a massage hustler.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:24:35]:
So for 2 years I ran activities in the supportive housing facility and, I had fun, and then I was like, I’m done with this. I wanna go back to freelance life. I don’t wanna sit in my office all day. Why am I here? That was a little existential. I I knew why I was there. But, you know, sometimes, tell me if you agree. Sometimes you’re in the office and you’re doing your work and you’re like, Wow. Why? Why do I have to be right here now to do this? Like, Yeah.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:25:05]:
I’m done for the day, but it’s not 5 o’clock yet or some variety of that. I just have no patience for that.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:25:13]:
Oh, no. I totally agree. And I definitely remember that from when I was working in corporate. It sometimes you just be like, and I’m done, But there’s more time on the clock. So what can I do that is low energy, low effort that I can sort of post through the rest of the day?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:25:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. It was good for me to take that break from my excessive freelance lifestyle. It helped my neck and shoulders stop being pain.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:25:42]:
Interesting. Yeah. So are those symptoms of when you’re burning out? You had mentioned Tiredness, you’d mentioned anger, sore shoulders
HanaKyle Moranz [00:25:51]:
and neck. Yes, definitely body. My body sent big messages. I mean, I’m pretty vigilant. I would say I’m hyper vigilant in terms of feeling my, my body sensation. Very, very tuned in, like to a fault, but it is what it is. I am bland. I’m not the only one like this.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:26:09]:
I know that.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:26:09]:
This is why you’re probably a movement maven now.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:26:13]:
Exactly. Exactly. So I can talk to people about, you know, is this the right sensation or is this the wrong sensation? Don’t worry. It’s not right or wrong, but what do I do about this sensation?
Evelyn Pacitti [00:26:21]:
Are there any body sensations that you get when you’re starting to feel exhausted or you’re depleting your resources that are unexpected.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:26:32]:
Oh. I don’t think I have the answer to that exactly, but I think it’s not the sensation that’s unexpected, I think it’s the correlation that’s unexpected. I think that when someone is starting to burn out when I’m when I was starting to burn out and I started to feel bad, it was hard to recognize that that’s what was happening, that the burnout, the overworking was causing this in my body or my mind, like, maybe I’m being really irritable or short-tempered. Okay. During that time period before I had the full time job for 2 years, I would come home and I had this really kind, really generous roommates who I would walk in the door and he would be like, How are you? And I would be like, in my head, Leave me alone. Because I did not wanna talk about how I was. I’m not good. I’m either in pain or I’m exhausted or I’m hungry and I don’t have the capacity to have a chat with you about that.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:27:41]:
That would have been a good sign to notice. But eventually, I did come to the conclusion that I was not going to get anywhere. I felt like I was sort of bashing my head against a wall. And then I took this full time job to see what that was like. I had never done that before. So I went into a radical change, and it was good for my body. Wasn’t as good for my mind.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:28:08]:
But It’s interesting. So why do you say it was good for your body to do that kind of radical change?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:28:14]:
Because I got to rest my body. No longer was my livelihood dependent on my physicality.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:28:22]:
Oh.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:28:23]:
I mean, I had to show up. I had to be present, but I didn’t have to do like actual physical labor for hours on hours every day, I didn’t have to run all over town. I went to one place every day.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:28:36]:
How different to go to 1 place every day? So taking the learnings of the physical exhaustion, the work that you did that was physically exhausted compare and then you did 2 years of work that ended up, I think you said it was hard for your mind. So my guess is it was more mentally exhausting work.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:28:54]:
Wasn’t like doing heavy calculations or anything like that. It was actually, I’m reticent to say it, but I was like a little bored.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:29:00]:
Okay.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:29:01]:
But my reaction was less my shoulders hurt and more I’m not stimulated. I really liked doing the activities. I really liked doing the events and taking people out and like facilitating the interpersonal, but in between I was bored.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:29:16]:
Okay. So how did you take those things? And then when you went back to freelancing, build something that’s more sustainable?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:29:25]:
It’s a work in progress for sure. And, technology changed in those years between when I first became a massage therapist and when I stopped and came back, in that now I can make my own website with Squarespace. They’re not paying me to say this. I just really like their customer server. But it’s like really important to be able to change what I do or to change how I describe myself. I recognized that I couldn’t be working from 8 am to 8 pm with whatever breaks in between, but that if I had something at night, I had to not be working in the morning. If I had something in the morning, I had to not be working at night. So I think that it was part of aging too and learning about my energy capacity, which I think is a big deal, how much energy you have in a day.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:30:34]:
Yeah. I think that that limits people across the board.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:30:37]:
Yes, if
HanaKyle Moranz [00:30:38]:
you don’t get enough sleep, you don’t have enough energy. If you don’t have enough food, you don’t have enough energy, so many reasons. So and as I got into my thirties, you know, I became cognizant of that when you’re, when younger people have more energy.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:30:54]:
Yeah. The you have a mildly infinite reserve in your twenties. And I think as you start to age, you’re like, wait a second. This is why having kids when you’re older in life Feels so much more challenging because your infinite reserves are now also being used for chasing tiny feet.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:31:09]:
Oh, yeah. I’m seeing my friends do it all over the place and I am not jealous. I think their children are adorable and I’m so glad I don’t have to chase them.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:31:20]:
Yeah. There’s there’s a lot of chasing involved. And you’re like, okay, how am I going to balance this in a way in which I don’t melt their brains so that I can rest?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:31:29]:
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:31:32]:
So you’ve got this ongoing process and you said that you’ve set better boundaries. Is this sort of morning and evening, knowing what your energy reserves look like an example of some of those boundaries?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:31:42]:
Absolutely. I recently had said it to I’ve I’ve started saying it to clients who had someone ask me for, like, an 8 PM massage, and I was just like this was a little over text. Oh, you know, we’re not even having a real conversation, what it’s worth. But I, I said in response, I see a lot of clients in the morning. And so I’m really not at my best in the evening and I cannot start after 6:30 pm. And I just put my foot down. And if that means that that client wants to see someone else, a different massage therapist. I’m not gonna cry about it because there’s only so much I can do, you know? Yeah.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:32:22]:
I gotta be there. I gotta be there for the things that are scheduled and once I start adding things in, then, you know, we make it work the best we can or we don’t and I think that’s realistic. And then there’s also the part of like, okay, today I have 1 client that I see in the park. And so I’m gonna go to park with her for an hour from 1:30 to 2:30, and then I have a massage client nearby and I gave myself a half an hour. Okay? To get from one place to the other and have a little snack. And I think that’s enough. So my next so I used this person from 1:30 to 2:30 and then I see the next person at 3. And, well, here’s the thing, it’s winter, so it’s not like I can hang her outside for the last for an extra half an hour.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:33:12]:
So I was like, let me just put this close and I think I can do it. And here’s hoping I don’t get a flat tire on my bicycle, here’s hoping I’m not late to the 1st session, but scheduling is always part of the task of knowing myself and knowing what I need and what I can do versus what I think I should do.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:33:36]:
Yeah. And that seems to be a consistent thing that’s come up in this conversation today is if you’re in the kind of work where you are Doing client focused work, or even if you’re doing something where you’re like, you’re moving from meeting to meeting, how what are you doing with that Space between that and how are you properly supporting not only the work that you have to do, the shadow work, Quote unquote of the Yeah. Prepping, the note taking, the mental transitions, all those other things, as well as the taking care of yourself within those transition windows. Mhmm, mhmm. For me during the pandemic, I learned so much about the importance of those transitions and how By not being in the office and having to physically move from meeting to meeting, I lost that transition. Actually losing my commute from the office to the home, I lost that window where my brain would shut down and switch gears. And I never noticed how important that time for those transitions,
HanaKyle Moranz [00:34:36]:
even if it
Evelyn Pacitti [00:34:37]:
was just part of life, driving home, walking up 3 floors to a different building or down the hallway, the fact that you passed people and you had conversations in hallways where things were spontaneous and how that would impact the way that your mind would work as that sort of reset and that reclocking. All those transition moments in between are so underestimated, I think. Yet, that’s where the secret Sauce of recovery, reset, recharging, disconnecting, empowering yourself comes in those moments.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:35:15]:
I totally agree. I totally agree. And, and I think part of my experience was I was riding my bike from place to place and even if riding my bike included like moments of threat or fear or anger, there was still a process. My body was in motion. I was increasing my heart rate, maybe sweating a little bit, maybe doing something physically slightly physically challenging along with whatever else was happening, and that was sort of like a flush to the system of all the things. I feel like perhaps I might’ve mentioned this before, not in this conversation, but in a previous conversation, the book called Burnout.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:35:58]:
Okay.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:35:58]:
With by Emily and Emilia Nagoski. I just am gonna give you a plug for that book because they really lay it out so clearly the way that our nervous system need those transitions and it’s not just transitions, but it oh, I’m sure they have language for it that it it’s not coming to mind right now, but but how animals shake it out.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:36:21]:
Mhmm.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:36:21]:
You know, and then that you’re hugging the dog, you’re petting the dog and then the dog jumps down and then shake. And yeah, exactly. We need to do that too, because that’s a reset for our nervous system. And so any of these things that you’re talking about moving from room to room, like a little stroll, having a conversation where you are expressing different a different feeling than you are expressing in meeting a or meeting b. Eating or drinking, laughing. In the book, it’s like dancing, singing, crying, you know, big stuff. And for me, it was biking, all of those things help us with transition. And I think movement is a really big part of it.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:37:12]:
And and shameably that’s why
Evelyn Pacitti [00:37:15]:
I created 5 Minute Movement. You actually answered my next question. We’re talking about those transitions and the power of what we can do to Shake it out and reset our nervous system in those windows. What kind of mini experiments can we run to play with that window?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:37:30]:
Yeah, so many, many experiments are possible. And even as a long time professional, I’m still running experiments. When I’m teaching other people, they are 100% experiments. Try it. See if you like it. If you don’t like it, toss it. Anyway, literally shaking it out, like flinging your limbs is one that I, I think it’s funny for adults to do, but we do it in my household when someone is cranky, the other person says shake it out and then we sort of like bounce in place and let our limbs flop about and you just, you can’t be mad.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:38:05]:
Like a floppy Muppet in my head like, totally.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:38:09]:
Yes. Yes. You’re a floppy Muppet. Absolutely. And you can let your head bobble around and you do it like to the point where you’re like, you took a deep breath, something changed. Right, it doesn’t have to be a cert for a certain amount of time, but it, it will be invigorating because it’s fast movement, you’re bouncing. You could also try something that’s more like a simple stretch, whether it’s a seated or standing forward fold, whether it’s reaching your arms up to the ceiling, you might interlace your fingers or not, but taking your body out of the position that it’s been in for some period of time, putting it in a different position, doing some breathing. So it’s really about creating circulation and more breathing because our breath is really, changing whatever’s happening inside us so much all the time.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:39:05]:
So those are the very simple ones. You don’t have to be an expert, you don’t have to have any prior knowledge to do those kinds of things. And I made 5 Minute Movement in the spring of 2020, the full title of 5 Minute Movement is 5 Minute Movement, daily reminders to stretch and strengthen. And so there are 5 minute videos of a like single movement or like a couple of related movements that I send to people once a day in a text message. It’s a subscription program and those subscribers get a little text and they go, oh, it’s it’s time for me to do 5 minute movement or it’s at the end of their day and they’re like, oh, I still have these unread texts. Oh, it’s 5 minute movement. I’m gonna do this right now. None of it is extreme.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:39:53]:
They’re all like warm up into something a little bit harder or maybe it’s just a relaxing stretch. So there are many, many videos because I’ve been making them for all these years. And within the week, they address the whole body. And some people save them and do a couple at a time, so they’ll do, like, a 15 minute session of movement. If you have more time for your movement break, that’s awesome because they come in tech, they are saveable. So they’re just there, you can go back. I’ve never tried to make a Movement library as a user like, from the user’s end in in YouTube because they’re all YouTube videos, but I feel pretty sure that with access to the video, someone could compile it for themselves. And then like really hold onto the ones they love.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:40:48]:
Can you access 5 minute movement if you are not in the US to get a US text message?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:40:54]:
During signup, there’s the option to get it via email.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:40:57]:
Okay. Great.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:40:58]:
And, so anyone can get it via email. Some people decide to do that. They like it better there. I like it as a text because I think that we are accustomed to seeing our texts and taking action a little bit more than email.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:41:14]:
Clever.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:41:15]:
Yeah. I
Evelyn Pacitti [00:41:16]:
try. People wanna learn more about you or sign up for 5 minute movement. How can they learn more about you?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:41:21]:
I have this website. It’s my name, hanakyle.comhanakyle. I’m also on Instagram at hanakyle. And in terms of 5 minute movement, there are 2 options. 1 is the 5 minute movement mini course, which is a free 5 day version over email, which is a great place to start because then you get an idea of what I’m like, you get an you get to try a bunch of movements with me and see what you think. And through the mini course, you get, a discount for the subscription.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:42:01]:
It sounds lovely. Okay. So I’ve learned a lot about MVMT and thinking about How to use my transition times more effectively. But to wrap up today’s conversation, I wanna ask you the 5 questions that I ask all of my guests.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:42:16]:
Are you ready? I’m ready.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:42:19]:
What is your definition of wellness?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:42:22]:
Well, I didn’t know these were gonna be hard questions. Geez, now I gotta commit to a definition of wellness. Well, 10. I think it’s something about feeling like you can do what you need to do in a day without great resistance, great challenge. Although some people are challenged every day by the things they need to do, and that’s fair too. I think a lot in terms of physical wellness because that’s my job, that’s the like path I’ve chosen, but I think that this could also be considered a very interesting conversation around mental wellness and I hope that you have someone that you get to talk about in-depth with that because I don’t think they’re separate, but I can speak but speaking to physical wellness, I think it’s being able to do what you want and need to do on any given day.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:43:13]:
Yeah. What is your favorite method to recharge during the workday?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:43:19]:
I have like 5 favorite. Okay, like c. Sometimes, I just like to lay on the floor for a few minutes and do nothing. I understand that’s not always possible depending on the setting you’re in. Sometimes, I will do a little bit of meditation just breathing and paying attention to my breathing, I didn’t even talk about meditation as a tactic, but it’s something that I’ve utilized for a long, long time. Taking a walk, going outside, if I’ve been inside all day and I haven’t gone outside, even if it’s not so nice out, going outside is a significant recharge for me. And there’s also, like, having a snack, I cannot, I don’t wanna underestimate the power of having a snack. I love food, so it’s important to me.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:44:13]:
My husband was so mad that one of my son’s first words was snack. Oh, amazing. My husband’s focus is on meals. The concept of our kid like snacking throughout the day really bothers me.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:44:26]:
Eyes on the prize. You need snacks. Yeah, I understand not everyone loves snacks, but I think snacks have a lot of power and, like, they can be so helpful. One time, well, one time a therapist taught me health. So when you’re not feeling good, you ask yourself, are you hungry? Are you angry? Are you lonely? Or are you tired? Hunger is important. We gotta take care of that.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:44:55]:
If you could master 1 skill instantly, what would it be? Oh my God, Evelyn.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:45:01]:
How? This is super boring. I want it to be about, like, finances and, like, being able to keep track of my, the minutiae of my money. So boring.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:45:17]:
Yeah. I love it. I love that. This is another category of things that I ask everybody, so it’s always fun to see what everybody comes up with.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:45:25]:
I don’t even want that to be with my answer, but it’s my answer today, so we’re just gonna leave it.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:45:29]:
What are you geeking out about right now?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:45:34]:
Well, I’m always geeking out about ceramic. And I also have a strong interest in low fashion, which is like a movement of clothing manufacturing that is more ethical than we’ve been in a long time.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:45:50]:
Yeah.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:45:51]:
And I’m like deep in it all the time. So, yeah, you can just Google slow fashion, learn some things, if you want. Not you, anyone, anyone. But it’s really fun. I think, like, what the way that we adorn ourselves is very interesting to me and it has a big effect on how I feel. So if I feel physically like, I and I’m enjoying the colors that I’m wearing, for example, then I’m I have more energy. I’m in a better mood. I feel like there’s 1 more thing I’m geeking out about that I wanted to say, but maybe that’s it.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:46:29]:
Yeah.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:46:30]:
That works. Final question. Imagine a world where you have achieved the optimal work life blend. Describe your typical day.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:46:42]:
Cute. I like this. Though there’s a couple of typical days, but let’s say, this is maybe the Monday through Thursday
Evelyn Pacitti [00:46:50]:
version. Yeah.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:46:52]:
Because Friday, Saturday, Sunday is is free for all. So because I have my ideal blend to have the 4 4 day work week. Right? Why not? I wake up at 8 or so. I have some food. I see a couple of clients on zoom, like maybe 2. That’s a couple. And then after lunch, I have 1 massage client. Maybe I have 2 massage clients, depends on the day.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:47:21]:
Then I go to the ceramic studio and, why I sort of messed up that schedule because at some point I’m going to need dinner.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:47:32]:
Mhmm.
HanaKyle Moranz [00:47:32]:
So maybe I go maybe I have dinner early dinner at home and then I go to the ceramic studio or maybe I have just 1 client and then I go to the ceramic studio and then I come home for dinner a little later. But, it pretty much is like that. There’s time for work and time for my hobbies and things I enjoy, on a different version of that day, there might be dance class instead of going to the ceramic studio. And then on the weekend, there’s no work, but there’s like a hike or a trip to the beach or quality time with friends or all of the above. Mhmm. That
Evelyn Pacitti [00:48:10]:
sounds lovely. Do you have any sort of like shut down or quieting activities at the end of your day?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:48:16]:
Oh, yeah. I read constantly. I didn’t even include that in my hobbies or my geekiness, but I’m a voracious reader and, I read a lot of fantasy, young adult and adult fantasy, a little bit Sci Fi, but mostly fantasy. So, there’s reading. At the end of the day, there’s a bath. If it’s winter or spring or fall, frankly, anytime of summer, there’s a bath and reading. Sometimes there’s television or movies, but much more often there’s reading. And that’s, that’s how I turn it down.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:48:53]:
Thanks. Well, thank you so much for coming, being willing to join the podcast today. I really enjoyed our conversation. It was just so Natural, free flowing, and we sort of went a bit everywhere, but I loved it. And I hope the audience got as much out of it as I did today. I hope so too. And as we shut down, what is the one thing you want the audience to take away from our discussion today?
HanaKyle Moranz [00:49:15]:
I would like to encourage everyone to ask for what they need and pursue what they need or what they want in their work life balance and to not be afraid of asking, especially if you’re socialized as a woman because I think that we don’t get what we want until we ask for what we want. But there’s a lot of fear around asking for what we want and I don’t, I don’t want people to be afraid. And I want people’s lives to be better, period.
Evelyn Pacitti [00:49:59]:
Intrigued or inspired by today’s episode, but forgot the details? Don’t worry. I’ve got you covered. Airing serenity.com for a complete summary of today’s episode, including time stamps, links, and other resources for your adventure. Wishing you Strength and serenity,